A visit to the Fryar Cemetery ...
Introduction ...
Note: We have organized the cemeteries in our Gazetteer based on a problem that we had while working on our own genealogy. Without specifying the cemeteries involved, we found an ancestor that we believed to have been buried in one cemetery was actually buried elsewhere.
We discovered that his burial had been refused at the last moment and the family had scrambled to make new arrangements. By looking at nearby cemeteries, the surrounding communities and in newspapers of the period, we were finally able to locate his burial site.
Should you find yourself in the same situation, we hope that our Gazetteer helps you discover your lost ancestor.
The Location of the Fryar Cemetery ...
Note: The GPS location that we are using for the Fryar Cemetery can be traced back to the Geographic Names Information System (GNIS)<1>
We are using the following GPS coordinates (latitude and longitude) for the Fryar Cemetery
Lat: 35.1312° (35° 7' 52")
Lon: -85.0688° (-85° 4' 7")
The Fryar Cemetery is located in Hamilton County<2>.
The county seat for Hamilton County is located in Chattanooga. Chattanooga lies 14 miles [22.5 km]<3> to the west southwest of the Fryar Cemetery .
List of nearby cemeteries ...
Based on our list of cemeteries, we know of 40 that are within 6 miles [9.7 km] of the Fryar Cemetery.<4>
We've listed the following cemeteries based on their distance from Fryar Cemetery, with the nearest first.
- Sylar Cemetery
(Less than 2 miles to the southeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Sylar Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Sylar Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Sylar Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Varnell Cemetery
(Less than 2 miles to the east)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Varnell Cemetery
- The Varnell Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- To give a relative sense of its location, the Varnell Cemetery is located 5 miles [8 km]<3> to the south of Ooltewah.
- Jump to Find-A-Grave: FG ID #19698 <5>
- Shirley Cemetery
(Less than 2 miles to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Shirley Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Shirley Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Shirley Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Scoggins Cemetery
(2 miles [3.2 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Scoggins Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Scoggins Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Scoggins Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Jump to Find-A-Grave: FG ID #18208 <5>
- Padget Cemetery
(2 miles [3.2 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Padget Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Padget Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Padget Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- McDonald Cemetery
(2 miles [3.2 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the McDonald Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the McDonald Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The McDonald Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Hodges Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Hodges Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Hodges Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Hodges Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Bell Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Bell Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Bell Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Bell Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Ooltewah Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the south)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Ooltewah Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Ooltewah Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Ooltewah Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Holder Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Holder Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Holder Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Holder Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Mahan Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Mahan Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Mahan Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Mahan Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Montgomery Cemetery
(3 miles [4.8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Montgomery Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Montgomery Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Montgomery Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Continue List (28 more) ...
- Daughtrey Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Daughtrey Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Daughtrey Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Daughtrey Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Summit Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the southwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Summit Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Summit Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Summit Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Summit Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the south)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Summit Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Summit Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Summit Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Lee Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the east)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Lee Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Lee Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Lee Cemetery is located in Bradley County
- McDonald East View Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the McDonald East View Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the McDonald East View Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The McDonald East View Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Snow Cemetery
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Snow Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Snow Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Snow Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Denny Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Denny Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Denny Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Denny Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Maddux Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Maddux Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Maddux Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Maddux Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Miller Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Miller Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Miller Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Miller Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Bailey Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Bailey Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Bailey Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Bailey Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Jackson Chapel Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Jackson Chapel Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Jackson Chapel Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Jackson Chapel Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Rawlston Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Rawlston Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Rawlston Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Rawlston Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Foster - Hixson Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the west)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Foster - Hixson Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Foster - Hixson Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Foster - Hixson Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Varnell Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the southwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Varnell Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Varnell Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Varnell Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Silverdale Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the southwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Silverdale Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Silverdale Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Silverdale Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Silverdale Confederate Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the southwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Silverdale Confederate Cemetery
- The Silverdale Confederate Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- The Silverdale Confederate Cemetery has also been known as:
- Confederate Cemetery
- Floral Hills Memorial Gardens
(5 miles [8 km] to the south)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Floral Hills Memorial Gardens
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Floral Hills Memorial Gardens have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Floral Hills Memorial Gardens is located in Hamilton County
- Tallant Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the south)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Tallant Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Tallant Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Tallant Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Chesnutt Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the southeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Chesnutt Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Chesnutt Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Chesnutt Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Loftis Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the southeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Loftis Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Loftis Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Loftis Cemetery is located in Bradley County
- Bancroft Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the east)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Bancroft Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Bancroft Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Bancroft Cemetery is located in Bradley County
- Earls Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Earls Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Earls Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Earls Cemetery is located in Bradley County
- Blair Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Blair Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Blair Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Blair Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Roddy - Yarnell Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Roddy - Yarnell Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Roddy - Yarnell Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Roddy - Yarnell Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Stover Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Stover Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Stover Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Stover Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Talley Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the northeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Talley Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Talley Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Talley Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Ray Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Ray Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Ray Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Ray Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
- Williamson Cemetery
(5 miles [8 km] to the north)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for the Williamson Cemetery
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for the Williamson Cemetery have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- The Williamson Cemetery is located in Hamilton County
For an expanded list with details, please visit our List of cemeteries.
List of neighboring communities ...
The following 30 communities are within 10 miles [16.1 km]<3> of the Fryar Cemetery.
We've listed the following communities based on their distance from Fryar Cemetery, with the nearest first.
- Harrison
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the west)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Harrison have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Harrison
- Harrison is located in Hamilton County
- Jump to TripAdvisor's Tourism page for Harrison <6>
- Ooltewah
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the south)
- Mineral Park
(4 miles [6.4 km] to the southeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Mineral Park
- Mineral Park is located in Bradley County
- Collegedale
(5 miles [8 km] to the south)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Collegedale have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Collegedale
- Collegedale is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2020 Census: 11,400 people
- Jump to TripAdvisor's Tourism page for Collegedale <6>
- McDonald
(5 miles [8 km] to the east)
- Lake Dweller
(5 miles [8 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Lake Dweller
- Lake Dweller is located in Hamilton County
- Lakesite
(6 miles [9.7 km] to the northwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Lakesite have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Lakesite
- Lakesite is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2020 Census: 1,866 people
- Apison
(7 miles [11.3 km] to the south)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Apison
- Apison is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2010 Census: 2,469 people
- Caramel Village
(7 miles [11.3 km] to the northwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Caramel Village have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Caramel Village
- Caramel Village is located in Hamilton County
- Middle Valley
(7 miles [11.3 km] to the northwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Middle Valley have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Middle Valley
- Middle Valley is located in Hamilton County
- Kings Point
(9 miles [14.5 km] to the west)
- Note: We haven't been able to verify our GPS coordinates for Kings Point. Although the coordinates have been estimated, they should be in the vicinity.<7>
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Kings Point
- Kings Point is located in Hamilton County
- Howardville
(9 miles [14.5 km] to the southeast)
- Note: We haven't been able to verify our GPS coordinates for Howardville. Although the coordinates have been estimated, they should be in the vicinity.<7>
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Howardville
- Howardville is located in Hamilton County
- Continue List (18 more) ...
- Sandalwood Village
(9 miles [14.5 km] to the northwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Sandalwood Village have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Sandalwood Village
- Sandalwood Village is located in Hamilton County
- Brainerd Hills
(10 miles [16.1 km] to the southwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Brainerd Hills
- Brainerd Hills is located in Hamilton County
- East Brainerd
(10 miles [16.1 km] to the southwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for East Brainerd have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for East Brainerd
- East Brainerd is located in Hamilton County
- Soddy - Daisy
(10 miles [16.1 km] to the northwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Soddy - Daisy have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Soddy - Daisy
- Soddy - Daisy is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2020 Census: 13,719 people
- Jump to TripAdvisor's Tourism page for Soddy - Daisy <6>
- Graysville
(11 miles [17.7 km] to the south)
- South Cleveland
(11 miles [17.7 km] to the east)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for South Cleveland have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for South Cleveland
- South Cleveland is located in Bradley County
- Population from the 2010 Census: 6,912 people
- Cleveland
(11 miles [17.7 km] to the east)
- Lupton City
(11 miles [17.7 km] to the west)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Lupton City have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Lupton City
- Lupton City is located in Hamilton County
- Colonial Village
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the west)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Colonial Village have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Colonial Village
- Colonial Village is located in Hamilton County
- Ridgeside
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the southwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Ridgeside have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Ridgeside
- Ridgeside is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2020 Census: 446 people
- East Ridge
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the southwest)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for East Ridge have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for East Ridge
- East Ridge is located in Hamilton County
- Population from the 2020 Census: 21,205 people
- Jump to TripAdvisor's Tourism page for East Ridge <6>
- Red Clay
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the southeast)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Red Clay
- Red Clay is located in Whitfield County (GA)
- Soddy
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the northwest)
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Soddy
- Soddy is located in Hamilton County
- Wildwood Lake
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the east)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Wildwood Lake have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Wildwood Lake
- Wildwood Lake is located in Bradley County
- Population from the 2010 Census: 3,124 people
- East Cleveland
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the east)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for East Cleveland have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for East Cleveland
- East Cleveland is located in Bradley County
- Population from the 2010 Census: 1,608 people
- Countryside Village
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the northeast)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Countryside Village have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Countryside Village
- Countryside Village is located in Bradley County
- Hopewell
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the northeast)
- Note: The GPS coordinates that we are using for Hopewell have been provided by the GNIS.<1> The coordinates still need to be verified.
- Jump to our Gazetteer entry for Hopewell
- Hopewell is located in Bradley County
- Red Bank
(12 miles [19.3 km] to the west)
For the full list of neighboring communities with details, please visit our extended List of Communities.
Nearby communities with newspapers ...
The following communities are those where newspapers have been published and are located in the vicinity of the Fryar Cemetery. Unless otherwise noted, the following communities are located in Hamilton County.
More information can be found on our list of Local Newspapers for The Fryar Cemetery.
We've listed the following communities alphabetically.
- Cleveland
- East Ridge
- Ooltewah
- Red Bank
- Soddy - Daisy
Websites to help with your research ...
When we do our genealogical research, we begin with the websites from Cyndi's List, FamilySearch and Genealogy Trails. These professional and volunteer websites offer the information directly or else point to where you can find it. Their websites are open to everyone.
To help you get started, the following links will take you to the pages that might help with the Fryar Cemetery:
- Pages specific to Tennessee:
- Pages specific to Hamilton County:
- Genealogy information for nearby counties:
- Cemetery Information and Directories:
- About the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church ...
Miscellaneous References and Mentions ...
Our approach is to add the name of a cemetery whenever we see it mentioned - usually from newspapers, old books and maps. Typically we have little information to start with, but we continue to add detail as we find it.
We've created the following list to keep track of the sources that we found useful for the Fryar Cemetery:
- Referenced GNIS Record ...
- GNIS ID #1285001 (Fryar Cemetery)
- Note: GNIS record #1285001 has been archived by the USGS. It is no longer maintained by the USGS, nor can it be retrieved from their website.
- Class: cemetery Map Name: Snow Hill
- County: Hamilton Elev: 240
- Location given for GNIS #1285001 (Fryar Cemetery)
Off-the-Road Links ...
The official website for Hamilton County: www.hamiltontn.gov/
The official website for State of Tennessee: https://www.tn.gov/
Footnotes ...
<1> | The location has been supplied by the Geographic Names Information System - which is maintained by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS). While these values should be definitive, we found that accuracy can vary and you should double-check the location if accuracy is required. |
<2> | If you're interested in how the shape of Tennessee's counties, including Hamilton, have changed over time, we recommend the Atlas of Historical County Boundaries. |
<3> | Our distances are not driving distances, but are calculated as a 'straight-line' distance. A straight line distance ignores things like rivers, canyons, lakes, et cetera - it's truly a line drawn from Point A (ie- ) to Point B.Our distance measurements begin at a specific point at the Fryar Cemetery. The point we use is located at these GPS coordinates - Latitude: 35.1312, Longitude: -85.0688 In this case, the coordinates for the Fryar Cemetery have been provided by the Geographic Names Information System (GNIS). |
<4> | While we have an extensive database of cemeteries (with over 200,000 entries), you can be assured that it's not complete and our list will be missing cemeteries. |
<5> | The Find-a-Grave website is an excellent research tool with information about a cemetery's location and interments. They also offer a forum for their members which can provide additional help. More information about Find-a-Grave can be found on their website: findagrave.com. |
<6> | While we're fans and frequent users of TripAdvisor, you should know that we're also members of the TripAdvisor affiliate program. |
<7> | An 'estimated' location is one where we have been given GPS coordinates, but are unable to verify the accuracy of those coordinates. That said, we have some confidence that we have placed the marker near the actual location. A typical reason for being unable to verify a location is that it might be on private property or maybe historic and gone without an obvious trace. |